And retired the 2 of them anyway and replaced with Hellcat 9mm. Trijicon HD Night Sights - Smith & Wesson M&P SHIELD, M&P SHIELD Plus, and M&P SHIELD 2.0 SA139-C-600722. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. I only use mine for shooting people, not target work. For range work, I mainly shoot 38 Special +Ps. However, when I am in a city, in addition to my duty pistol I always carry the 360PD in my front pocket. Smith & Wesson has succeeded in helping to protect citizens around the world since 1852, and beauties like the M&P 340 leave no doubts as to how or why. I was looking on GB & found 2 without ILS & both in my state of Michigan so . Of course, this model builds upon a decades-old tradition for lightweight, hammerless pocket revolvers, and I think the concept reached its apotheosis with the M&P340. It's a 357 magnum and weighs about 11.4 oz unloaded. Another warning in the owners manual is recoil may pull the cases of unfired rounds in the cylinder rearward with enough force to unseat the (lighter and shorter) bullets, causing the cylinder to jam. The partially burnt charge will leak out onto the cylinder and frame while still burning, causing damaging oxidation to the gun's exotic metals over time. i have fired the 357 and 38 +p out of a 360 over a chronograph and had less than 10% difference in velocity[ 75 fps]. The previous poster was close in regards to the cylinder comment. My carry loads are either standard-pressure Underwood .38 SPL Defenders or the Speer 135gr. Used $450.00. The Smith & Wesson J-Frame has become the most popular small frame personal defense revolver on the market. weight and magnum potential. Jun 18, 2014. Concessions to magnum force included a stainless steel J-shaped insert to combat Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. They say that clothes make the man/woman. I think its ridiculous gun makers ever went to a 5-shot revolver, what did they save an 1/8 th of an inch on cylinder width? The gun's design makes it a good concealed carry option. It incorporated a grip safety in the backstrap that supposedly would require an adult hand to span both that part of the handle and the trigger. COMPARE. . Deployed military should use stateside address. I gravitate more towards the Slim-Tuk because it locks into place firmly and has minimal thickness. I can pick one up for arround $700. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if required) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. I tried the Ruger LCR after if became available. Despite all the damning evidence, the Smith & Wesson internal lock problem is likely not as bad as it appears. The pistol demonstrated superb accuracy for self-defense at close ranges. 's blog. Gold Dot +P at 1.75". Add to Cart The item has been added. ( Note: S&W also offers this gun with a titanium alloy cylinder, the Model 340PD.) The 340PD is a great carry-a-lot-use-a-little gun and it is one of the best BUG guns for LEOs ever . With ether one you won't be sorry. I'm hoping to get my paws on one soon. Selected results are shown in the accompanying chart. Report a problem. I'll be staying away from Magtech 158gr SJSP 357. I have added a set of laser grips. Mike said: I had my J frame 340pd lock up on me the other day when the "safety" lock was activated under fire. 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Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. .357 Mag Power: This pistol weighs just under 14 ounces, which makes firing full-power Magnum loads painful and difficult to control. Smith & Wesson. Its 10ozs(m/l) heavier, shoots easy with 125 PDs, is accurate & u can shoot all 5 fast & easy & is almost as easy to conceal. IN STOCK $ 959.00 $ 929.99. Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. Model: 632 Carry Comp Pro. If you want to carry one of these lightweight revolvers, understand that recoil management is a much bigger problem than having to carry the extra weight of an all steel J frame. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. Might as well buy ruger and save a few dollars. No purchase necessary. Sadly, my Model 60 carries the dubious distinction of being the only revolver to have a total mechanical failure at the range: The top of the trigger sheared off at only about round #1200 through the gun, requiring a trip back to S&W, and downgrading my Model 60 from carry piece to range piece. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It's a 158gr speer gold dot bullet. My 3 #60 in .357 is much easier to shoot than the 2 #638 in .38 spl. Deployed military should use stateside address. But if you have your hand on your 360PD in your pocket, you will beat him every time, even if he had his gun pointed right at you with his finger on the trigger. Gun Review: S&W 317 AirLite. Hawaii Department of Land & Natural Resources, State Agency: Five-shot groups from sandbags ranged from an outstanding 1.75 (Speer 135s) to 2.25 (Black Hills 148s) to 3-3.5 for the remaining .38s. Contest void where prohibited by law. So this revolver was born. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. The size and weight of the 360PD make it particularly well suited for concealed carry. Let me convince you just why you need this new handgun. The Scandium frame and the Titanium cylinder come together to create something very special. As time went on, S&W incrementally strengthened its J-Frames. The 340PD had a scandium frame and a titanium cylinder, the latter necessary for resisting high chamber pressures. Yesterday I bought a 340pd without the ILS nib at a LGS. In truth, we only have anecdotal evidence that some S&W locks have malfunctioned. S&W Set The Bar For Magnum Handgun Performance 50 Years Ago. Power in a compact package is the key to the 340 PDs appeal. My wife's 642 Airweight .38 +P is 15 ounces. Perry's Gun Shop is an owner operated family business with a long . Those years were painful ones at the range. Why. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check (if required) and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. New Hampshire Fish & Game Department, State Agency: To that end, the hammer was completely concealed inside the frame and thus could not be cocked to a lighter single-action pull. For more information, visit smith-wesson.com. Weighing just about two ounces more than my pocket gun, the 340 M&P comes with . Of course you could load her with 38 spcl, but then again, Id argue 380 capacity once again. I had an old retired sherif deputy tell me that, one thing about a wheel gun is that it will never lie to ya. Tim. Meanwhile, my all-stainless Model 60 .357 is 22 ounces, much less painful to shoot than either of the lightweights, and about $250 cheaper than the 340PD. The demand of used SMITH WESSON 1066 pistol's has not changed over the past 12 months. Yes you can forget you are carrying its so light. GDHP +P (780 fps) and Aguila 130-gr. I often carry my 340PD in either a leather IWB holster or the DeSantis Slim-Tuk Kydex IWB holster. (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. As pictured, the LCP Max is so easy to fire. 0. Arizona Game & Fish Department, State Agency: Bullet etched on the bottom of the barrel sleeve. There are many different J-Frames on the market, but I believe the 340PD to be the most unique. If you don t need the ultra light weight, I d recommend the S&W 442 at nearly half price. Lately, the .40 S&W has been awash in a stormy sea of unflattering ink. Are they worht the $$$? (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. Michigan Deptartment of Natural Resources, State Agency: And while the Hogue grips look nice I wouldnt want to shoot this gun unless it was fitted with standard rubber grips. After all, it could provide just one more level of distraction should it ever come time to use the gun in the type of emergency it was designed for. My everyday carry are the 325PD 45 & M60 357 or various 45 autos. No purchase necessary. The rear sight is a groove in the top of the frame. Rebound Springs. (II) Limit one (1) entry per household; multiple entries will disqualify entrants. Looking at the brown stain adjacent fracture looks familiar, this appears to have been working a while and picked this time to let go. By contrast, the excellent little Model 642 Centennial Airweight in .38 Special carries an MSRP of only $469. Today 01:58 AM by outdoorsdad. As this is written, S&Ws MSRP for the M&P340 is $869. At . .357 JHPs we managed to put four out of the five in 4. Similar to your standard Airweight revolvers. Though I do not carry in this way, the Galco Ankle Glove seems to be the gold standard. There's a small stainless steel insert in the topstrap right above the forcing cone, appearing to act as insurance against "flame-cutting" from the high pressures of magnum loads. Additionally, J-Frames have a heavier trigger pull than most semi-autos, especially common striker-fired options. (I) Giveaway ends April 30, 2023. The Centennial swiftly became a bestseller. No purchase necessary. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. The 340 PD at $1,019 MSRP is obviously a premium offering, featuring a 2-piece sleeved barrel, scandium frame and a titanium cylinder. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. I am required to qualify each year with my department to keep up my CCW. FMJ (648 fps). The Smith & Wesson Model 29 is the sixgun by which all other .44 Magnums are judged. The Shooter's Log, is to provide informationnot opinionsto our customers and the shooting community. The wooden round butt grips extend downwards from the frame about an inch, enough for me to just barely get all of my fingers on the grip. 8 years as a FFL dealer. (II) Limit one (1) entry per household; multiple entries will disqualify entrants. There are now 25 states with so-called Constitutional carry and Florida appears to be approaching permitless carry, which translates to more citizens S&W Set The Bar For Magnum Handgun Performance 50 Years Ago. Snub-nose .38s were generally carried in holsters instead of pockets, so the snag-free hammerless design seemed less important. -. Smith & Wesson Nice touch. Smith and Wesson S&W M340PD, 340pd M-340 - Airweight NO INTERNAL LOCK Used and carried from time-to-time, but unfired. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. These Scandium revolvers are niche conversation pieces IMHO. Probable stress corrosion cracking initiated by notch sensitivity. It has a snub-nosed design, low recoil and a medium ranked power factor meaning that the Model 340 PD 2 packs a punch and doesn . I am happy with .38 +P and the lighter weight. Some thoughts on the 340 PD: more expensive than a 340; more recoil; added concerns about lighter weight bullets potentially jumping their crimp and locking the cylinder -- so you need to thoroughly test your carry loads. South Dakota Game, Fish & Parks, State Agency: They are iffy guns. State Agency: They replaced the entire gun each time. Hence the need to spend a considerable amount of time on the range learning to control shooting these lightweight revolvers. Be weary of a summit that begins with sharing bread; for the sated man is at his weakest. Common Smith and Wesson 327 Problems and Solutions 1. Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Nothing wrong with a semi auto either, just keep it clean and practice all your jam scenarios. Your email address will not be published. Posted June 24, 2020 in Editorial, Pistols, Revolver, Wheelgun Wednesday by Rusty S. with No CommentsTags: model 60, Pro Series, S&W, Smith and Wesson. With a listed price of $849 (real world prices are closer to $750), this model is also one of the more affordable .44 Mag. THink the cylinder is different too. Smith & Wesson Models 40, 42, 640, 940, 442, 642, 340Sc, 342Ti and 340PD. The .357 just doesn t make sense in anything shorter than a three inch barrel, which is still quite borderline. I just have a sweet spot for Smith snubbies and although I have a 638, I've always been intrigued by the 340pd. Steel silhouettes yield easy hits out to 50y thanks to the longer sight radius and the ability to fire it in single action. To date, I've probably fired 1,500 rounds of factory .327 Mag. Having a tied-up CCW gun would be the nightmare of nightmares one from which you might not awaken. Action is quicker than reaction, every time. I hear .38 and .38+p are very tolerable and the .357's have a lot of snap to them and you don't want to spend a day at the range with only .357's. I have tried steel and aluminum-framed J-frames. Shipping, insurance, and FFL handling $90.00, if less I will refund the difference. .45 &.357 are my favorite calibers. Company honcho Daniel Baird Wesson, the legend says, became concerned about children accidentally getting hold of a parents revolver. Smith & Wesson M&P .45 Magazine 10 Rd $32.00. Shell ejection out of a hot cylinder on the Model 60 has never been an issue for me like it has been with the 340PD. Of its many variations, one seems to stand above the rest in terms of performance. 14 rounds vs 5 rounds. Massachusetts Division of Fisheries & Wildlife, State Agency: Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, GOM April 2023, P.O. The 340PD is pleasant for me to shoot with regular 38 loads. Seriously don't beat on your gun, hold the ejector rod with your left thumb in the housing, cock the hammer enough to release the locking bolt reach around the trigger housing and rotate the cylinder counter clockwise.It will tighen the rod enough to open the cylinder. Theres also a flip-side to the Plus-Ps Plenty for Me argument and Ive heard it from very knowledgeable CCW types. Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. From the left side it looks like a little silver horizontal J against the dark anodized scandium. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. Carrying the Model 60 was comfortable either inside or outside the waistband with a leather holster. You are correct that most 357 loads even those that are advertized as for self-defense and not full-house are rough to fire but the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 357 rounds (135g JHP) seems perfect. With practice, Im sure you could trim that down a bit. 6-shots and you can make an argument for a revolver over a semi-auto, but not with 5. Stay safe out there and at least carry something! Please be respectful of others. Buy Smith & Wesson 340 PD 357 Magnum Revolver 103061: GunBroker is the largest seller of Revolvers Pistols Guns & Firearms All: 970540754 . Per the comment on percentage on Scandium, if one studies metallurgy, very small percentages of alloy metals can totally change attributes. That is up to you -- some think so and others not so much. Im an old revolver guy and have a soft spot for snub nose revolvers. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. Deployed military should use stateside address. The M&P340 is built on a scandium alloy frame with a stainless steel cylinder. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. Basically, its give me all the power I can get! With the 340 PD, youre free to explore all ammo possibilities, but very few are going to want .357s for regular practice. Box 488, Escondido, CA 92033. Innovations in firearms real innovations almost seem to be a . I swapped the standard rubber grips for Hogue G10 grips. The Model 340 PD NO INTERNAL LOCK is a variation of the Model 40 Centennial AirLite that integrates the time-tested features of the original with modern advancements. weight through a combination of carbon steel, aluminum and Titanium alloys. Smith and Wesson 340PD. In those days, a great many good Americans carried concealed handguns when they were out and about, and most carried them in a pants or coat pocket. Cop armorer friend had to send 2 or 3 standard aluminum J frames (642/442) back to S&W that cracked the frame at 6 OClock below the forcing cone. If you are looking at purchasing your own I would look into the standard 38 special aluminum model with a stainless cylinder. It was smooth and consistent with a slight hitch tipping us off at the pause point. Technical Specifications: Caliber: .357. Minnesota Deptartment of Natural Resources, State Agency: Estimated Value *Using 80% condition for calculating used Values. That was a few years ago at an NRA convention if I recall correctly. Its the best insurance when someone gets the jump on you. # 1187477 01/10/07. As a pocket gun they are great, but I always prefer something that starts with a 44 or 45 & 357. 6: 2,020: Model 629-6 6" 44 magnum, Model 647 no dash 17 HMR(reduced) posted by outdoorsdad 02-22-2023. Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, State Agency: For outside-the-waistband carry, I prefer the DeSantis Mini Scabbard. (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. I bought a 340pd and installed the XS big dot front sight for a M&P 340 onto it. He will beat you. A .357 Magnum option is okay, I guess, he said, once circulation had returned to his hand. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. Actually, that LCP MAX is looking pretty good. It has to enable you a fast and easy draw at all times and conditions. We can ring steel plates off hand at 50 yards consistently. Associated taxes and fees are the responsibility of winners. Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife Resources, State Agency: On top of this, the scandium/titanium combo makes for a distinctive 2-tone silver/black effect. I had put about 30ish rounds through it when it happened. Shooting champion, instructor and gunsmith Ernest Langdon was working for S&W at the time, and he introduced me to the new M&P340. Scandium is a very expensive and hard to find rare earth element that is currently mined in small quantities in China, Russia, and Ukraine. S&W said that happens sometimes from hoop stress transferred through the aluminum when the machine screws on the barrel or when they thread the frame for the barrel. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. personally i would get a 442 because money is an issue . Dont understand the 120gr min bullet weight stamp on the barrel and this wasnt explained in the article. S&W did just that and offered an Airweight version with a then-novel aluminum frame. If you're going to carry .38s, you might as well save yourself $500 (retail) and get the Airweight for just 3 ounces more weight. There was a time that I recommended the J frames for backup guns. Right front pocket holster and Im dressed for peace and armed for trouble. The most important modification is to get it Mag-Na-Ported. If you encounter any problems with your order or the checkout process, . I try to train with at least 100 rounds of full power defensive ammo in my carry pieces. The matte finish is durable in wet environments and I didn't hesitate to take it out in the rain. Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. By contrast, this M&P340 has now gone a full decade of frequent 50- to 100-round qualifications with +P ammo, and some full-power Magnum shooting, and has not had to be touched by an armorer yet. California Department of Fish & Wildlife, State Agency: At 50 feet we grouped the following .38 Special loads: Black Hills 148-gr. Some hammerless models can even be fired from inside a coat pocket or bag. Minnesota. (I) Giveaway ends February 28, 2023. The Smith and Wesson 340PD is definitely not the best gun for target shooting or fun at the range, but it wasn't designed for that. However, I just prefer a more comfortable and versatile model: The Model 60-15 Pro Series. However, it should be noted everything from this test gun shot a bit left probably inconsequential at close range. Re: Smith & Wesson 340/340PD Revolver-Thoughts, Comments, Cuggestions, etc. Front Sight for Smith and Wesson J-Frame Barrel 2.1 inch or Less Except 38 Bodyguard $ 49.03. With all the modern semi-auto pistols available, revolvers often go overlooked. Smith & Wesson. A 5-round titanuim cylinder and scandium/aluminum alloy frame. Feedback Score. I think Ill pass. Maryland Department of Natural Resources, State Agency: 1952: The great combat shooting authority Rex Applegate had linked up with S&W in the postwar years, and sold the companys guns among other materiel in Latin America. New Jersey Division of Fish & Wildlife, State Agency: Winners must respond within 30 days of receiving notification or an alternate winner will be selected. October 6, 2008. WTS Smith and Wesson 340PD. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. Ive had one since they came out & have had j frames forever. These small revolvers were designed to fire a full power round and are as simple and easy to use as they are reliable. Contest void where prohibited by law. The 340 PD at $1,019 MSRP is obviously a premium offering, featuring a 2-piece sleeved barrel, scandium frame and a titanium cylinder. Deposits have been located in Australia, but are not currently being mined. Low Flash, Low Recoil JHPs. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. Frame Finish. Grips for Smith Wesson Model 340. Theres also the admonition No Less Than 120-Gr. Try it unloaded and you will see. Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency, State Agency: Heres why. This is accomplished by using a scandium alloy frame and titanium cylinder. There have been enough J-Frames for a gun collector to specialize in and gather a substantial herd of them. This simplicity of course, involves the tacit acceptance youre going to be shooting a snubbie double-action anyway. It's a double action only 5-shot .38 Special intended to compete directly with the Smith & Wesson Airweights. Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission, State Agency: Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. The S&W M&P 340 is a solidly built, purpose driven revolver that covers a whole host of purposes it could function well in. Over the years, my M&P340 has worn several different grips. JavaScript is disabled. I have the 329PD, had the trigger done over at the S&W custom shop. I have the simply rugged convertible IWB/OWB holster. +P JHP (843 fps), Federal Premium 130-gr. No purchase necessary. Connecticut Department of Energy & Environmental Protection, State Agency: Lets look a little deeper than the bare bones of how its described on the S&W website. Perfect gun for hiking, Mt. West Virginia Division of Natural Resources, State Agency: This doesn't mean it's not accurate, however. Rex approached S&W and asked the company to resurrect the Safety Hammerless in the format of the conventional outside-hammer, five-shot J-Frame in .38 Special, which the company had introduced two years before. During qual 5 rds of 38 +P 135 gr HP Gold Dot SB. I would love that for pocket carry! Tags: model 60, Pro Series, S&W, Smith and Wesson. That revolver, while insanely light, is true misery to fire. Just hope you hit target and can get back on target if you dont or if theres more than one perp. I am comparing the S&W 340PD with the M&P 340. Ayoob: 5 Cases That Show the Dangers of a Hair Trigger. I carry .38 +Ps as my defense rounds. 25 with my backup mag. The Smith and Wesson 340PD is no ordinary J-Frame revolver, it is the lightest weight .357 Magnum revolver on the planet. The box does have some damage all the paper work is complete. Michigun Santa on May 31, 2022 at 7:43 pm. Check the attached site and check your revolvers for this issue. While that gun now resides in my workshop instead of on my hip, Im still a fan of the .357 chambered J-frame. That depends on the individual. Overall, there aren't very many problems with the S&W 642. Even when firing 100 rounds of .357, there are no hot spots in the metacarpal zone of my hand. The it in question involved lighting off five reasonably quick rounds of .357 Magnum from a J-Frame S&W snubbie with a minimal curb weight specifically, the lightweight 340 PD. The assembled features and good looks of the M&P 340 do come at a cost though, as Smith & Wesson's MSRP is listed at $869. Mail-in entries accepted; send postcards (no envelopes) to: GUNS Magazine, GOM March 2022, P.O. It may not display this or other websites correctly. That is what I carry now. Trijicon tritium front sight bead is the very small dot in the ramp. You better have a firm grip and proper technique if you hope to hit anything, especially with follow-up shots. There are possibilities of changing a grip in the process of finding the right one. The two-piece barrel is also shrouded to protect the ejector rod. He learned that the discontinued Centennial had become a sought-after cult gun among those experts, including Wiley Clapp and many more. Now, if you notice closely, the cylinder will not lock in position after pulling the trigger. Subject: Scandium .357 - 340 PD. I fell in love with it, mainly for its sights, and ordered one. We only took advantage of the .357 chambering enough to try a pair of magnum loads. Whether you're shooting a pistol, revolver, or rifle, you can be sure your Performance Center gun is made with a close . because of the difference in weight. Litewave H3 Express Tritium/Litepipe S&W M&P Shield, Shield Plus Theres a small stainless steel insert in the topstrap right above the forcing cone, appearing to act as insurance against flame-cutting from the high pressures of magnum loads. The .38 Special, still one of the most popular calibers, was among the first to disappear from gun shop shelves, but .357 Magnum rounds were distinctly easier to come by. This Google translation feature is provided for informational purposes only. Alabama Department of Conservation & Natural Resources. Details. With the more manageable Buffalo Bore 158-gr. Recoil was another matter. I chose the m&p because it did not have the ils but I really wanted a PD. My bet is that the failure crack originated from a tool mark left over from broaching the cylinder recess in the frame. It is still fairly tight. The result was a dramatic loss in revolver weight. scandium alloy makes it as light or a bit lighter than a similarly sized aluminum-framed .38 Special Airweight, but its rugged enough to handle .357 Magnum ammo and a steady diet of .38 Special +P rounds, while the five-shot cylinder is made of PVD-finished stainless steel. To address the restriction on bullets less than 120gr: There is a prohibition against using ammunition with bullet weight less than 120 grains due to the risk of frame erosion from powder that is still burning after too rapid exit of the light projectile. Giveaway prizes may have evidence of being test fired or exhibit minor handling marks. Id surmise this is to caution anyone from using short, lightweight screamers that could be more likely to jump the crimp. What 357 or 38 Special loads are you guys running in your 340's? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It would be chambered for a broad range of cartridges, including the .22 LR, .22 Magnum, .32 Magnum, .327 Federal, .356 TSW, 9mm, and of course, the .38 Special and .357 Magnum. Athens, Tn. Virginia Department of Wildlife Resources, State Agency: Deployed military should use stateside address. Smith & Wesson M&P45 Shield 45 ACP Conceal Carry Handgun with Night Sights and 3 . That load is not always readily available everywhere, and my fallback carry round for the M&P340 is Remingtons all-lead, 158-grain semi-wadcutter +P ammo. Caliber.357 Mag. Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, State Agency: It's a solid, well-built little gun. 340PD. However, I still argue that wheel guns still have a place for emergency defensive use and may even be the right option for your everyday carry revolvers such as the S&W 340PD. (I) Giveaway ends December 31, 2022. No substitutions or transfers to third parties allowed. I have the 360PD version, which is the same scandium-alloy frame but exposed hammer. Ruger has been using MIM parts for more than 10 years. Shooting 357s from my SP101 is enough fun for me, I don't even want to think about shooting them from a Scandium!